Razorfist: The Comic Film Crash Has Begun

Razorfist: The Comic Film Crash Has Begun

I agree with Razorfist in practice if not in principle.

I’ll explain.

Certainly, Marvel’s time at the top of the heap is likely over and done with. Robert Downey and Chris Evans were the primary stars of Phase III. Without them and their characters, all continuity with the Thanos years ends. For ten years everyone has been told that Kevin Fiege is the indispensable man at Marvel. But given how weak this year’s slate has been and the fact that nobody seems interested in any of the upcoming MSheU films, I am now beginning to strongly suspect that the real indispensable man (be it Isaac Perlmutter or some unsung hero) has left Marvel and it’s collapsing without him.

DC is flailing wildly in all directions. Hiring Bad Reboot is nothing short of desperation. You can justify hiring him to the BOD because of the raw financial data and thus temporarily keep your job. But eventually, he’s going to deliver a terrible franchise-killing product.

So yes, the current superhero movie meta is about to die due to studio decisions.

However, I think there is still plenty of blood left in that stone.

Humans find the heroic archetypes as compelling as ever. There is still a need for simple images of heroes. If Hollywood can’t provide them then someone else will.

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Comments (35)

  • EXALT Reply

    Marvel could have chosen a dignified death with Endgame – a movie I personally hated, but most people seem to appreciate; instead they’ll get a slow and painful one, releasing movies that ever less people watch, until they’ll get their own New Mutants. And speaking of desperation, What If begins tomorrow: will we get a review?
    “For ten years everyone has been told that Kevin Fiege is the indispensable man at Marvel.”
    Feige has recently admitted that he wasn’t really into superhero comics when he was young – but everyone who saw him erase Uncle Ben from Spider-Man’s history already knew that; the cast of Eternals is what we get when he’s on his own.
    “nobody seems interested in any of the upcoming MSheU films”
    Which is particularly tragic for Marvel, because those films include another Spider-Man flick; and speaking again of desperation, that explains certain rumors about the movie*.
    “the current superhero movie meta is about to die due to studio decisions.”
    Anybody wants to guess what the Next Big Thing is going to be? Perhaps a return to proper High Fantasy, with no deconstructions and subverted expectations?
    It appears Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield will both have important roles in the movie, alongside many of their old villains – and two of them, Doc Ock and Electro, are already confirmed. Kinda like What If and that trailer for Phase 4 mostly comprised of archive footage, this doesn’t showcase much trust in the future.

    August 10, 2021 at 9:08 pm
    • Seeker Reply

      They are trying to position fantasy, video game adaptations, and anime live action adaptations as the next big genre. Here’s some examples of series currently in production: Lord of the Rings (live action/animated), Wheel of Time, Conan the Barbarian, Red Sonia, Redwall (animated), Chronicles of Narnia (live action), Halo (live action), Mass Effect (live action), The Last of Us (live action), Masters of the Universe (animated), Cowboy Beebop (live action), Avatar the Last Airbender (live action), etc. As for if your expectations will be subverted… brand zero and save yourself the frustration.

      August 10, 2021 at 10:42 pm
      • Bies Podkrakowski Reply

        “Lord of the Rings (live action/animated), Wheel of Time, Conan the Barbarian, Red Sonia, Redwall (animated), Chronicles of Narnia (live action), Halo (live action), Mass Effect (live action),”

        I didn’t realize that there are so many things that I enjoy that are going to be destroyed.
        Wheel of Time – black Perrin. Ugh.
        Hakan Rotmwrt was right, lets pray to the Yellowstone and end this.

        August 11, 2021 at 8:42 am
        • EXALT Reply

          It’s been almost three years since Netflix acquired Narnia, and two years since there’s been any kind of news about it: with a bit of luck, that particular danger is gone.

          August 11, 2021 at 9:12 am
          • The Dark Herald

            The rumor is that Jack Gresham (Lewis’ stepson) has been the roadblock. Netflix wants to extract the Christian themes (naturally) and Gresham won’t let them. He still controls the estate. All blessings upon the faithful son. However, he was born in 1945, I don’t know what happens after he goes.

            August 11, 2021 at 11:06 am
      • MrUNIVAC Reply

        The fantasy projects are almost certainly just trying to recapture Game of Thrones’s lightning in bottle. The problem is that GoT is more like a medieval period drama with a few light fantasy elements (HBO’s Rome is basically the same show without the magical BS), and what propelled it more than anything in the beginning was pushing the gore, sex, and shock value way past Troma levels. Most of these other shows aren’t going to be able to lean on that in their settings, and the fact that they’re going to try anyway (see Amazon’s hiring of a “nudity consultant” for their LotR show) will end up dooming them.

        There’s also the possibility that Benioff and Weiss broke not just GoT, but fantasy in general by bungling the last two GoT seasons so hard. I get that fantasy isn’t really a “franchise,” but I wonder if people are going to approach these a little more cautiously, in the same way that a new movie in a franchise after a “bad” one makes a bunch of money gets punished.

        August 11, 2021 at 12:21 pm
        • Seeker Reply

          In a really odd way, the anti-villains of this pop culture epoch are B&W and Rian Johnson. Without them, this whole ship might have sailed without being criticized.

          August 11, 2021 at 7:37 pm
  • furor kek tonicus Reply

    but the “heroic archetype” does NOT require superhuman heros leaping tall buildings in their underwear. in fact, there’s a good argument to be made that a superhuman requires LESS heroism because of his greater capabilities and durability and, hence, less personal risk. how are you going to hurt the Flash unless you ambush him?
    Odysseus may have been smert and valiant and tricksy but he didn’t have any particular inhuman powers or wear ( for his era ) goofy outfits. although i will admit that the “superhuman” trope originates with the half godlings and gods of Greco-Roman and earlier mythologies.
    the Shadow and Green Hornet and the Lone Ranger and others of their ilk might have started the costume gimmick but they were just normie human variants on the normie human Batman theme.
    weren’t John Wayne’s characters “heroic”? what of Audie Murphy in “To Hell and Back”? Horatius at the bridge?
    i would agree that there is a subconscious or sociological need for “heroic archetypes”, but comic book characters are certainly not a requirement to fulfill that need.

    August 10, 2021 at 9:25 pm
    • Chris Lopes Reply

      For Audie Murphy, “To Hell And Back” was just a typical Tuesday in the war. He lived that shit without super powers.

      August 10, 2021 at 9:53 pm
      • Talos Valcoran Reply

        Thanks, I needed another Sabaton earworm today.

        August 10, 2021 at 11:11 pm
      • Wazdaka Reply

        Small guys make bad targets

        August 11, 2021 at 3:21 am
      • furor kek tonicus Reply

        i noted that specifically because Audie was a non-fiction ( or at least BASED ON reality ) example. Horatius also might have existed. Sergeant York could have served but he didn’t play himself in the Hollywood adaptation.
        my point is that the heroic archetype extends across practically ALL varieties of fiction and even into the Real Life / nonfiction which so many Millenials find to be too traumatic to endure.
        heros don’t necessarily need underwear.
        now would probably be a bad time to mention that one of my IRL nicknames is “commando”.

        August 11, 2021 at 5:30 am
    • Codex Reply

      And even before Batman, there was the Scarlet Pimpernel.

      August 15, 2021 at 5:53 am
  • jorgen b Reply

    There aren’t enough SJWs and cuckservatives to keep comic movies afloat? Well isn’t that interesting. Looks like the majority truly are now on the true right.

    August 10, 2021 at 9:49 pm
    • Chris Lopes Reply

      Shocking isn’t it? I mean who knew telling your fan base to eat shit and die wasn’t a brilliant business model?

      August 10, 2021 at 9:58 pm
  • Seeker Reply

    There’s lots of interesting things that could be done with the more niche Marvel and DC characters. However, the well known ones are played out.

    In the case of Marvel, Spiderman is on his third reboot in 20 years, the Fantastic Four have 0 hype after 3 bad-mediocre movies, the Avengers arc is done and nobody wants to see their successors, and there’s already been enough X-men movies (besides, the main X-men characters, Wolverine and Dark Phoenix, are played out). They’ve tried to branch out with Wandavision (sitcom themed show), Black Widow (spy thriller), and Shang Chi (kung fu/wuxia), but they can’t seem to go credibly from wise cracking marvel to other genres. Eternals, Guardians 3, Thor L&T, Marvels, Spiderman 3, and Doctor Strange 2 (which replaced lovecraftian horror with spiderman, apparently), seem like more of the same + politics.

    In the case of DC, the fans wanted more films in the Nolan vein where there was depth of character and maturity. Snyder got a fanbase because he and Goyer gave people the illusion of that. However, DCs most influential movies have been the vapid and meaningless ones like Aquaman and Shazam. You could say that Joker is the exception, but the director has admitted it’s a non-genre film wearing a DC Skinsuit. Finally, their shows are mostly embarrassingly vapid/political vessels. The ones that people point to as exceptions like Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol, and Stargirl, are niche. Black Adam vs. the JLA is the closest thing to an interesting concept, but it sounds like it’s being tainted with political correctness. Anyways, in terms of reboots, we are about to see the sixth live action batman in recent memory, the seventh live action (diverse)superman, and semi-reboots of most of the properties to remove them from the Synder influence.

    August 10, 2021 at 10:23 pm
    • EXALT Reply

      I think an approach that hasn’t been tried yet*, and that could work even for the characters that already have various reboots under their belt is this: have the characters debut in their proper years, and then show them through the decades.
      By this I mean: Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman all become heroes during the late ’30s and early ’40s, alongside the more obscure characters of the Justice Society that existed at the time; do a maximum of three movies set in that general period, and then jump over to the mid 50’s or thereabouts: instead of waiting for the last possible moment for the heroes to retire, marry, and have families, like the MCU did, actually show them in the next period of their life – Superman has already married Lois and his twins are developing powers, Bruce Wayne is getting slower and so he’s training his son Damian alongside Nightwing, Green Lantern Alan Scott is training his substitute Hal Jordan… Do a handful of movies in each successive period, show things actually developing, and don’t put all your eggs in just a couple of baskets, so that, once Captain America/Superman and Iron Man/Batman leave, it’s sad but doesn’t doom your franchise. Have the Fantastic Four debut during the space race of the ’60s, as in the original, let Aunt May die in peace and Peter Parker marry and go on with his life, and along the way, make an effort to introduce actual new heroes, instead of the Woke variants.
      *Technically the X-Men prequel movies (First Class, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix) are all set in different decades, but the characters don’t age in the slightest and the team barely changes, so I’m not counting them.

      August 11, 2021 at 9:42 am
      • Seeker Reply

        There are plenty of things that could work like that. For example, if I had been in charge of something like Wonder Woman 1984, I would have gone with a Wonder girl/Wonder woman story. Regarding Green lantern, Ethan Van Sciver has said that he doesn’t think the Green Lantern powerset can work in live action, and I kind of agree with him on that. Without doing something really different with the light abilities, it risks coming across as too cartooney.

        As a counterpoint to the apprentice concept, you are ultimately focusing on new characters in those stories. There is some question of whether the old characters (that you also have to reestablish) are going to help or distract from that purpose. For example, you could do a lot more with a Question and Huntress team-up movie than a Batman and Robin movie. Similarly with Superman, you could do a Captain Atom movie that has a hero with similar strengths and patriotic focus, but in a military setting. Even if you went the apprentice route, it would probably be more interesting to see a Titans movie that focuses on them. If you want to go for something really unique and different, adapting more high concept series like The New Gods or the Grant Morrison Seven Soldiers run would be really interesting (although, adapting Seven Soldiers is probably a sign of the hollywood apocalypse). Point being, you don’t have to keep rebooting the same characters.

        August 11, 2021 at 8:37 pm
      • Patrick McNally Reply

        It’s probably way too late for that, but in principal I agree. Marvel Comics should have set to work on retiring their older characters way back in 1986-95. By the mid-90s Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Matt Murdock and a host should all have been retired and replaced with a new rising generation. By now that generation should have commenced retiring while an occasional appearance of Johnny Storm as a grandfather might liven things up a bit.

        But Marvel blew because they obviously became too greedy and lazy to really put the energy into rejuvenating the whole Marvel Universe. Many of their classic comics were interesting enough that it was possible to squeeze out an extra 2 decades or so from them. But by the early 2010s all of the signs of exhaustion were everywhere. I think that just fueled the most idiotic types of political correctness as it may seem “innovative” to concoct a black gay Captain America when you’ve really run out of organic plotlines. But it really just exposes the degeneration further.

        August 12, 2021 at 3:41 pm
  • Marielle Redclaw Reply

    If I had the backing, I’d create an Astro City series. If that succeeded, I’d move on to Planetary.

    There’s so much out there that could be adapted.

    August 11, 2021 at 12:59 am
  • Eli Reply

    “If Hollywood can’t provide them then someone else will.”
    This reads as if you know some things.

    August 11, 2021 at 3:07 am
    • furor kek tonicus Reply

      it’s best not to speak the Dark Lord’s name lest you draw his attention.
      i mean, you saw what he did to WorldCon, right?

      August 11, 2021 at 5:33 am
  • Joe S.Walker Reply

    Comic book movies are more likely to settle into slow decline than to crash. There will be some outright bombs (the fuse on Eternals is already fizzing and smoking) but the big names will still do business, albeit to a dwindling audience of fans who keep up with an increasing tangle of continuity and reboots. Rather like the comics themselves…

    August 11, 2021 at 3:58 am
  • Wazdaka Reply

    Are we taking bets on whether culture or society bottoms out first?

    August 11, 2021 at 10:41 am
  • Riejun Reply

    Making “heroic” comic book/fantasy/sci-fi entertainment allows for: 1) the political correct/woke to make whatever ridiculous heroes/heroines/situation they want that will further the woke agenda; 2) allows for a wider variety of villains and heroes/heroines; and 3) usually, doesn’t offend a potential market. Plus, in the last 30+ years, big sci-fi/fantasy movies have been the blockbusters. The suits like their blockbusters.

    I personally (a Gen-Xer) am tired of WWII and Vietnam based war based entertainment. Even with 20 years of the “Long War”, most of the entertainment based in or on the Long War didn’t focus on a traditional hero/heroine. Many anti-war/anti-hero/heroine entertainment or stand-ins for the enemy, i.e. “Battle Los Angeles”. A few truly heroic movies: “Act of Valor”, “American Sniper”, “13 Hours”, “The Outpost”, are some of them. But those movies didn’t have the mass appeal/mass market.

    Also, I don’t recall a “war movie” or “western” ever being considered a blockbuster… Certainly some made a lot of money in their day and are still consider classics and/or make the “best movie lists”, but none are an “Avatar”, “Gone with the Wind”, “Titanic”, “A New Hope”, etc…

    I too wish there were more heroic war movies/Westerns being made. There are plenty of real scenarios that could be used, but those scenarios aren’t allowed in the current big budget/blockbuster formula. Maybe take a real-life scenario and set it on Planet X, with the heroine being a LGBQ123 purple space marine and the bad guys being xenophobic white colonists or something… There are heroic war movies and westerns being made, not blockbuster level movies though, so until “we” have our own entertainment networks, we will have to deal with the small movies or suffer the woke crap…

    August 11, 2021 at 12:26 pm
    • Seeker Reply

      Some made blockbuster money in their day. Saving Private Ryan made 482 million in 1998. Dunkirk made 527 million in 2017. 1917 made 385 million in 2019. As something of a counterpoint, Gettysburg and Gods and Generals both made <15 million, so there can be issues with some war genre movies, regardless of quality.

      August 11, 2021 at 8:03 pm
    • furor kek tonicus Reply

      Also, I don’t recall a “war movie” or “western” ever being considered a blockbuster… but none are an “Avatar”, “Gone with the Wind”,
      you don’t consider GWtW to be a war movie? i’m don’t think you know what a war movie is. GWtW is just as much of a war movie as Grave of the Fireflies.
      i also don’t think you know what a Blockbuster is.
      Pearl Harbor made 450 million. whatever this movie’s weaknesses ( and they were manifold and manifest ) it was certainly a “blockbuster” at the box office.
      the Bond films are nothing BUT spycraft in your Long War. “In 2015 the series was estimated to be worth $19.9 billion,[1] making James Bond one of the highest-grossing media franchises of all time.
      Saving Private Ryan was over 480 million.
      Unforgiven made 160 mill in 1992, before box office numbers had gotten silly.
      while it might be WW1, Lawrence of Arabia is still a war movie and made 70 million IN 1962.
      more ironically, the first movies to garner the adjective “blockbuster” were war propaganda movies made DURING WW2 ( fitting, as the neologism was created to refer to the new large bombs which could level a block ). amongst the titles so termed:
      Bataan – 1943
      Bombardier – 1943
      With the Marines at Tarawa – 1944
      i could go on but there’s little point.

      August 12, 2021 at 1:06 am
  • Harry Goldblatt MD Reply

    Hi, VoxPopoli got nuked on Blogger.

    My afternoon is ruined.

    August 11, 2021 at 12:47 pm
  • The Dark Herald Reply

    Edit Reply
    I don’t have an official statement from Vox but it’s safe to assume it’s the usual Google SJW bullshit.
    Probably illegal AF under EU law, but low-level googlers wouldn’t know that, which is why they are trying this yet again.
    These things are usually over by Noon.

    August 11, 2021 at 12:53 pm
    • Jim S Reply

      Thank you! Keep us posted, if possible?

      August 11, 2021 at 1:04 pm
    • furor kek tonicus Reply

      my guess is they’re going to try to accuse him of spreading misinformation with regards to the Coof and !Vax, just like Facebook suspending Dr. Rand Paul.

      August 12, 2021 at 1:09 am
  • furor kek tonicus Reply

    for a wildly different take on Suicide Squad:

    August 11, 2021 at 1:07 pm
    • Chris Lopes Reply

      That was “interesting.” I’d hate to see his review of pretty much any 1980’s action movie starring Sly, Arnold, or Norris. Not to mention the Mission Impossible tv show. It’s called make believe.

      August 11, 2021 at 8:21 pm
    • furor kek tonicus Reply

      that’s just the thing, many of his points are valid and factual. the US conquering of Hawaii and the Phillippines didn’t have anything to do with “fighting Communism”. we helped Texas fight Mexico in large part so that the Texians could keep their slaves.
      and even when we were “fighting Communism” we have quite often associated and allied ourselves with characters who are unsavory in the extreme ( Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden being two who turned on us ).
      and i haven’t even gotten into the CIA drug running operations that people like Noriega were helping us with.
      you want to read an ineffably stupid and pointless critique of the movie, i’ll link you to the World Socialist Web Site’s review whenever they get around to it.

      August 12, 2021 at 1:23 am

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